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Switching the order of comments Ascending/descending
My site: http://www.liverpool-kop.com
For ages I have had my comments showing as oldest first. Now, this has changed to newest comments at the top. This is pointless for my site as it makes it impossible for people to follow the natural progression of the debate going on. No one wants to read the latest comment first as the entire debate has already finishes. Furthermore, I don't want my visitors to have to click 'page 8' just to get to the first post in the debate.
If a debate is going on, it makes sense to start at the beginning, not the end. That nmeans as soon as someone finishes reading a post, they start with the oldest comment first so that they can follow the debate.
Everything was fine until the 'newest first' change happened. I want to be able to have the oldest comments first (is that descending or ascending?) but from what I'm reading, it appears that this functionality has been removed.
Why?
Why do you keep removing things without consulting users? You removed the ability to have different themes (wire/smooth gray etc); now you've removed the ability to have oldest comments first. This autocratic approach does not endear JSkit to users.
My website is high volume (150k visitors a month), and an essential part of the site is the ability to follow the intense debate. Having newest comments first completely defeats the object of the commenting system (for my site), and if that's the case, there's no point in me having JS kit at all.
Please do not ignore this message and respond with 'but we've removed that functionality so there's nothing we can do'. This kind of approach is not the way to build brand loyalty.
I need to be able to have oldest comments first; if I can't have this, then I will remove JSkit and never come back. Perhaps you have enough users now not to care about losing one - if that's the case then so be it I suppose.
At present, the 'newest first' comment default is costing my visitors and is affecting debate on my site. If I do not receive a reply/solution very soon then I will switch to Intense Debate or another commenting system.
I apologise for being so forthright, but I just don't understand why you have to keep changing valued functionality.
Thank you.
Jaimie
NB. I am currently using smooth-gray, which seems to work despite it having been decomissioned.
For ages I have had my comments showing as oldest first. Now, this has changed to newest comments at the top. This is pointless for my site as it makes it impossible for people to follow the natural progression of the debate going on. No one wants to read the latest comment first as the entire debate has already finishes. Furthermore, I don't want my visitors to have to click 'page 8' just to get to the first post in the debate.
If a debate is going on, it makes sense to start at the beginning, not the end. That nmeans as soon as someone finishes reading a post, they start with the oldest comment first so that they can follow the debate.
Everything was fine until the 'newest first' change happened. I want to be able to have the oldest comments first (is that descending or ascending?) but from what I'm reading, it appears that this functionality has been removed.
Why?
Why do you keep removing things without consulting users? You removed the ability to have different themes (wire/smooth gray etc); now you've removed the ability to have oldest comments first. This autocratic approach does not endear JSkit to users.
My website is high volume (150k visitors a month), and an essential part of the site is the ability to follow the intense debate. Having newest comments first completely defeats the object of the commenting system (for my site), and if that's the case, there's no point in me having JS kit at all.
Please do not ignore this message and respond with 'but we've removed that functionality so there's nothing we can do'. This kind of approach is not the way to build brand loyalty.
I need to be able to have oldest comments first; if I can't have this, then I will remove JSkit and never come back. Perhaps you have enough users now not to care about losing one - if that's the case then so be it I suppose.
At present, the 'newest first' comment default is costing my visitors and is affecting debate on my site. If I do not receive a reply/solution very soon then I will switch to Intense Debate or another commenting system.
I apologise for being so forthright, but I just don't understand why you have to keep changing valued functionality.
Thank you.
Jaimie
NB. I am currently using smooth-gray, which seems to work despite it having been decomissioned.
I’m frustrated
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Hi Jaimie
I understand your frustration.
As we transition to Echo these changes sometimes frustrate long time users. Please be assured, however, that all the changes are made for very specific and considered reasons to optimize the experience over the medium and long terms.
As you can see from all the latest services like Facebook, Twitter, FriendFeed and others, reverse chronological order (newest at the top) is becoming the new expected behavior by users.
We have found that in most cases, people do not have a conversation in top level posts, but rather in the replies.
If a user wants to have a conversation with another, they can click reply and the comments are nested underneath and appear in chronological order.
Also, all our changes and optimizations are designed for the Echo skin. We will be removing the other skins shortly so I suggest you switch to Echo and see how your users quickly learn to love it.
We consult users about these changes on the blog and in forums like this. We appreciate your feedback and support and hope that as these changes roll out you will discover exciting new ways to have conversations using Echo.
The company says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?Hi Jaimie
I understand your frustration.
As we transition to Echo these changes sometimes frustrate long time users. Please be assured, however, that all the changes are made for very specific and considered reasons to optimize the experience over the medium and long terms.
As you can see from all the latest services like Facebook, Twitter, FriendFeed and others, reverse chronological order (newest at the top) is becoming the new expected behavior by users.
We have found that in most cases, people do not have a conversation in top level posts, but rather in the replies.
If a user wants to have a conversation with another, they can click reply and the comments are nested underneath and appear in chronological order.
Also, all our changes and optimizations are designed for the Echo skin. We will be removing the other skins shortly so I suggest you switch to Echo and see how your users quickly learn to love it.
We consult users about these changes on the blog and in forums like this. We appreciate your feedback and support and hope that as these changes roll out you will discover exciting new ways to have conversations using Echo.
The company says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?This does not solve my problem. Just because facebook et al do something doesn't mean it will work for everyone. This particular change does not 'optimise the experience' for my visitors, it makes it 100% worse.
And how exactly does someone follow the thread of a debate by starting with the newest post first?! Not every user understands/uses threading; they might miss the 'reply' button at the bottom of the post and just post normally. if this happens, then it causes a problem.
In a perfect world, users would all utilize the system properly, but this does not happen, which is something I think you're missing here.
Furthermore, as I said before, if there are lots of comments, then people have to click through to another page to find the beginning of a debate. People want convenience and to be able to follow the thread of a debate naturally; they don't want to have to mess about with unnecessary navigation.
Why can't this be an option for admins to decide themselves? Why remove it? You had this option for ages so it's obviously possible and it clearly workds. Every comment platform offers this; Blogger's default comment display is oldest first; intense debate and disqus both have this option. Why is JSkit frutrating users and making things difficult?
Having newest comments first is fine when there is no need to go back to the beginning of a thread to check what went before. When a site is built upon following debate, having newest comments first is pointless and counter-productive.
Just for clarification: are you saying that there is no way I can have this functionality? If so, that's very disappointing, and after my other query is answered (re comments being saved on blogger: http://support.js-kit.com/jskit/topic...), I will have to remove JSkit and go to one of your competitors.
You should give people what they want, not change things just because others are doing it.
Jaimie
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?Chris,
it is outrageous that these things should be implemented without your customers being given ample warning!
I agree with Jaimie completely - Facebook and twitter are not the same as comments on a blog which are often deeper more flowing debates.
Every time a change is made that affects our readers without us knowing in advance it makes us look unprofessional and flaky.
And I concur again with Jaimie, what possible reason could there be for not giving administrators the option to decide the chronological view of comments.
Why on earth remove something that many people use and value.
We are not as you know a "long time user". We implemented JS-kit 2 weeks before Echo went live.
But I am still enormously frustrated.
I am frustrated and angry not because I was used to a system and now its changing, but because the most basic tenets of business are not being followed by JS-kit.
Communicating to your customers changes that will affect their customers, is one of the most basic foundations for building trust and engendering goodwill in your products.
JS-kit just keep giving your customers whiplash.
JS-Kit is the greatest source of stress for all administrators associated with Mamamia.com.au
We have just gone from readers not being able to view the majority of comments for 3 DAYS, to now having to "educate" our readers that reversing the chronology on blog conversations and making it harder to follow the conversation is somehow "better'.
Don't you see that having replies run one way, and the greater conversation run the opposite way is just totally confusing for a person that just wants to get on a blog and be part of the conversation.
"We consult users about these changes on the blog and in forums like this. We appreciate your feedback and support and hope that as these changes roll out you will discover exciting new ways to have conversations using Echo."
Could you please tell us URGENTLY what other changes are rolling out, even if they are some time off.
In the mean time is there any work around to restore the 'oldest first' comment chronology until we can speak to our readers or find another solution.
I’m totally flabergasted that JS-kit has caused our readers so much stress AGAIN
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This answers the question
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Jaimie, while I'm in the 'other camp' meaning it's most helpful for me to have the most recents comments show up first, I believe what you are truly asking for is having "A CHOICE" as to which order the blog posts show up in. That way no matter if you like vanilla and I like chocolate, it doesn't matter since we both like ice cream (JS-Kit) we're still going to 'consume' it, regardless of the flavor. Also, and I could be mistake here, and I'm not advocating it either, that the For Pay version of Echo allows the choice of display order, that the Freebie version does not.
Take care,
Ken -
Inappropriate?After being deluged with email through our site feedback we've had to post on the change to ask readers to please try to get used to it.
Chris, this is an issue of customer service and communication.
This is not the right way to do business.
You should be focussed on keeping your paying customers happy, and helping them to look professional in the eyes of their customers/readers.
To that end, it would have been incredibly easy to let us know a week ago that this was happening to allow for a smooth and stress free change over and in turn allowing us to inform our customers.
As it happens, we've had to find out about the change from our utterly confused and angry readers, and we've been left looking totally unprofessional. -
Inappropriate?jaimie kanwar ,
Having newest comments first is fine when there is no need to go back to the beginning of a thread to check what went before. When a site is built upon following debate, having newest comments first is pointless and counter-productive.
Just for clarification: are you saying that there is no way I can have this functionality?
Please refer to the following topic: How do I change my settings so the comments appear below the box you input them in -
Inappropriate?I echo everything Jason has said above.
And I already have Echo Live - this does not solve the problem.
Jaimie
I’m frustrated
1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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And I already have Echo Live - this does not solve the problem.
The "Echo Live" account status doesn't mean that this solution wouldn't suit you.
If you have "Enable Echo Live" option enabled, this solution will not work.
However, you have "Enable Echo Live" option disabled, so you can use this solution. -
Inappropriate?I totally agree with Jamie.
conservatives4palin.com just installed this feature and now I am totally lost.
the brain does not work in descending order, nor can it read "up" a page.
with ascending order (oldest first), the info "flows" into the brain, and you can fast forward if need be.
twitter, facebook, etc. are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. they are like listening to people at a sporting event.
serious blogging sites are like 4 / 8 hour (or longer) sit downs at the cafe. You can sit there all day, or you can come in at 9pm, reveiw the transcript, then jump into the discussion.
another case of the computer guys making the decision, not the users. and not understanding what is the "essence" of a site.
I’m frustrated
1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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conservatives4palin.com site has "live updates" feature enabled, so Echo works like twitter, facebook, etc.
Just disable this option. -
Inappropriate?Hi Everyone,
A real-time thread requires real-time thinking.
Echo is designed a certain way to cater for users who appreciate real-time streams of social media style gestures.
If you would like more traditional commenting models there are other pure commenting products available.
We will continue to improve things as quickly as possible, but some design decisions are inherent in the product and are designed for a particular style of conversation.
Hope this helps clarify3 Comments Add a comment
This answers the question
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Chris,
that is a lame reply "a real time thread requires real time thinking". Pure B.S.
Did you read what Jaimie said ? IT'S A DISCUSSION
so why is it that you can't have two models ?
I am about to drop out of conservatives 4 palin because it is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE than this twitter model crap.
Twitter and Facebook are ONE THING, a serious blog with serious discussion is ANOTHER THING ?
Can you respond to what Jaimie said ? -
Since the Echo people haven't addressed the exact problem, let me spell it out. When reading a post with responses, one reads down the page. Then for a subsequent post, one must reverse direction and move UPWARD to the next post, BYPASSING STUFF ONE HAS ALREADY READ, interrupting the reading down. Saying "If you would like more traditional commenting models there are other pure commenting products available" isn't very far from "If you don't like it, tough." Not nice.
Twitter really isn't like that because each post is strictly limited, no more than 2 lines, and the downward reading is very brief and sometimes not necessary.
Online is all about customizing. The equivalent of "One size fits all" and "you can have any color as long as it's black" is a step backward, not forward.
"Echo is designed a certain way to cater for users who appreciate real-time streams of social media style gestures"
Latest post first has NOTHING to do that. I certainly can appreciate real-time streams, just in a different order. I find your statement condescending. -
Guys I am saying Echo is not a traditional commenting system and may not suit your needs.
We are moving as fast as possible to polish the product for the types of use cases we are being asked for - but right now there's no way to make the product do what you want in any short-term timeframe.
If you feel it's the wrong product for your community, then it would require the site administrator to make another choice. -
Inappropriate?Igor,
I'm not an administrator at conservatives4palin, just an active commenter.
so you are saying that if they disable live option, then what ? you have to refresh the screen.
The point we are making is the ascending vs. descending order, does live option have anything to do with that ?
I’m frustrated
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This answers the question
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William, Igor is referencing the fact that, right now, if you turn live updates off Echo begins to display from oldest to newest order.
This is actually not intended and more of a bug in our system, so I wouldn't bet on it as the long-term solution to your concern. -
Inappropriate?JS-Kits' employees' comments, and the myriad of different needs seem to be missing each other.
I simply want a choice. Newest comments first. Some may wish oldest comments first. Sheesh JS folk, this issue seems to be a question of giving the user a choice of which way we read.
I for one have invented a product that is taking off quite well and I simply wish those who come to my site be able to view and post so that their comments, the newest, show up first.
JS folk, are you saying that even in the $12/year version of Echo Live, this Newest First commenting order IS NOT WORKING and has a bug in it???
And, what happens to all my blog posts already in JS Kit free version if I upgrade to Echo Live? Are the previous posts lost/discarded???
PLEASE ADVISE ASAP.
I’m befuddled!~
1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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ken,
You have a choice:
- you can stay with Free version and use this solution: How do I change the default order of comments from "ascending" to "descending"?
OR
- you can use 'Enable Echo Live' option in Live version
And, what happens to all my blog posts already in JS Kit free version if I upgrade to Echo Live? Are the previous posts lost/discarded?
Why your previous posts should be lost? -
Inappropriate?Igor, you didn't answer my question. My question was is there a NON-CODE way to affect the display order (most recent posts first) of the blog posts in the free version of Echo?1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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A a non-code way is available to paid accounts. It's a new feature, our old comments didn't have it, only a code-based way was available before.
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Inappropriate?If I migrate to the Echo Live from the free Echo, do I risk losing all the previous posts on my blog page?1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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do I risk losing all the previous posts on my blog page?
never ever! -
Inappropriate?Why does Enable Echo Live put the edit box on top? I like it being able to update but I want the comment box on the bottom.
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Why does Enable Echo Live put the edit box on top?.3 Comments Add a comment
This answers the question
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See the answer from Chris Saad above.
Echo is designed a certain way to cater for users who appreciate real-time streams of social media style gestures.
If you turn live updates on, Echo begins to display from newest to oldest order, that's why the edit box stays on the top. -
Thanks but if I nable an option I would assume that the layout, especially the editing box, would not be moved. I mean it is just a div...I want people to see comments first and then decide whether to reply, this is not some immense blog or facebook site but a small group site. I don't want to think that things will change unde my feet either, I am paying you the $12 per site fee and want my users to not be hit by (to them) random changes. This seems implied here. Can't you just make a hierarchy for div placement... or even better hide the edit box and let the user use it as needed.
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or even better hide the edit box and let the user use it as needed
Just turn off Expand "Leave a comment" by default option in "Echo Options" section. -
Inappropriate?Good day,
I can't get the "post a new comment" box to be at the bottom of the thread. I have Echo Live enabled. I have tried with "backwards" yes and no with no sucess. Here is my code:
<style>...</style>
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Jean-Michel
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Problem with backwards option..
I’m confused
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This answers the question
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Jean-Michel,
See the answers above.
I can't get the "post a new comment" box to be at the bottom of the thread. I have Echo Live enabled.
If you have "Enable Echo Live" option enabled, this solution (the "backwards" attribute) will not work.
However, if you have "Enable Echo Live" option disabled, you can use this solution (the "backwards" attribute).
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